Tooooooosday, May 11, 2010.....Another Slow one

[Chip]

i'm talking about a different courtney ford, the one your talking about is the pic

Yes. That is what I am saying.
I have no idea who you are talking about.

[Brampton]

Courtney Ford :wanker: :wanker:

You sir, are an ass! :roflmao: :roflmao:

[Brian]

i'm talking about a different courtney ford, the one your talking about is the pic

Shame on you.

Yes, shame on you is right.

[Brampton]

i'm talking about a different courtney ford, the one your talking about is the pic

Shame on you.

Yes, shame on you is right.

I know......right?

[Jason_from_Tampa]

Hey are you and Pokes the same peson? If not then you just pasted somebody else's argument here..

No, I'm not. And I know that, that's why I left his name in the quotes. He just stated his point very clearly, and I don't have the time to.

I am willing to give you one thing. Directly...No slavery was not the issue. However all of the other issues that were the cause out of all of the Slavery had an impact in every one of them. So Therefore the reason people say that Slavery is the cause is because without it These things wouldn't be an issue.

All I'm saying is that it's not right to assume that everyone who owns/displays/wears a confederate flag is a racist who supports slavery.
You can't impose your opnion on what the flag stands for on other people.
It's a symbol of the south, that stood for more then just slavery.
At one point slavery was supported under the stars and stripes too.

I never said anybody who supports it is a racist who supports slavery. All i said was that the civil war was fought over slavery. i'm from a town called Plant City. I have friends that rock the rebel flag and some of them are good people. I just don't think most of them realize the full history behind it.

[Jason_from_Tampa]

Did you know that at the time of the civil war, there were 11 states in the Confederacy, all of which allowed slavery. There were 19 states in the Union, 4 of which still allowed slavery. So 25% of the states that allowed slavery in 1861 were part of the Union. Again, slavery was not the primary issue. Just the most horrendous one.

Nobody has been able to tell me WHAT exactly caused the civil war. You are giving me these stats on who had slaves. That's not the question. The question is What caused it? What was the reason for it?

Depends on which history book you read. Or what internet site you reference. A quick google search gave me the following, slavery, states rights, legislation, state sovereignty, the Harper's Ferry raid and more as reasons for the start of the war. Northern written and published history books will probably tell you slavery. Southern written and published history books will probably tell you states rights. Foreign history books might say it's b/c we are all greedy Americans. It depends on who wrote it.

I think the explanation that would make everyone the happiest is that the Southern stated succeeded due to Lincoln winning the presidency under the platform of proposed federal laws against slavery. The South argued for states' rights for slave owners. The Fugitive Slave Act set off South Carolina and the other Southern States, claiming that Northern states were not fulfilling their federal obligations under the Constitution and in fact were violating the Constitution in regards to states rights, the alleged violations of the rights of Southern states.

So under that explanation, people who say states rights are the cause are correct and so are people who say slavery was the cause.

Jefferson Davis came out after the war and stated that states' rights was its principal cause.

Dude you just made my point exactly. States rights is what a southener would say. but States rights to do what? to own slaves. if they didn't have slaves to do all that work for them for free then why would it be a big deal for states to have thier own individual rights?Why couldn't they do what the federal Govt wanted them to do?

[Jason_from_Tampa]

Did you know that at the time of the civil war, there were 11 states in the Confederacy, all of which allowed slavery. There were 19 states in the Union, 4 of which still allowed slavery. So 25% of the states that allowed slavery in 1861 were part of the Union. Again, slavery was not the primary issue. Just the most horrendous one.

Here i'll help you out http://americanhistory.about.com/b/2010/...-war-2.htm

Just read that and that is just what I have been saying.

There is more than one actual reason, so to say that there is just one, is silly, when it comes down to it, politics was the primary reason behind all 5 of those reasons.

Pete I love ya as a bro but i think you're just plain in denail that people would think like that.

[i bleed green]

O;ivia Munn moved up nicely.

[Pete Nice]

I love Olivia Munn, she is in my all time top 100 for sure, probably int he top 50.

[Pokes28]

Dude you just made my point exactly. States rights is what a southener would say. but States rights to do what? to own slaves. if they didn't have slaves to do all that work for them for free then why would it be a big deal for states to have thier own individual rights?Why couldn't they do what the federal Govt wanted them to do?

I think that is mostly wrong. We can all agree that if you want to trace things back you can spin circles and make anything about slavery in the South if you want to. However I think that is a bullshit answer to a lot of the things. The South was agriculture based so there were large amounts of fertile land that could grow cotton and tobacco. So of course that is where they needed more labor than the population could provide... thus slaves.

There had been a lot of turmoil in this country over a LOT more than just slaves. As stated, only one in 8 free men in the South (there were free blacks that owned slaves as well BTW) owned slaves. Most of those that did own slaves owned 5 or less. However of course there were huge plantations that owned thousands. But the topic isn't whether slavery existed or how many slaves there were. The topic is why did the South where over 80% of free people didn't own slaves attempt to leave the Union. Heck, West Virginia pulled away from Virginia (where slavery was legal) and formed their own state.

Remember that the war wasn't actually started by the South. The first military action was taken by the North (which is why in the South many don't refer to it as the Civil War, they refer to it as the War of Northern Aggression) to try and bring the rebel states back in line. Per the Constitution, there wasn't anything that would prevent States from leaving the Union. It took a vote to join the Union and according to most Constitutional experts of the time, it would only take a vote to leave. So the South felt they weren't fighting for independence, they were fighting off invaders to their nation.

Lincoln expressly said that he wouldn't make slavery illegal though he found it morally repugnant. The vote when Lincoln was elected showed the South just how little power they had. They voted as a block against Lincoln and yet he was elected due to the votes of the much more populous North (sound like the last Presidential election?) . So with Lincoln's promises, etc, why would the Southern states leave the Union when they did if it was about slavery? It wasn't. As Pete stated, not all the slave states decided to leave the Union. And General Lee wasn't a fan of slavery either. He would have been the 2nd President of the Confederacy and it is very likely that he would have banned slavery or at least put the South on that path.

There are facts and there are perceptions and in many cases, they simply don't align. This is one of those cases. If you go strictly by facts, this isn't about slavery. But that isn't the perception.

[Beckster]

If this internet isn't up an running soon, I am fucking going home!!! I can't get payroll done and, dammit, I want to get paid this week!!!!!

what does the internet have to do with payroll?

FYI - I need to log on to the company server to do the payroll. No Internet, no company server.

[LeNeve]

If this internet isn't up an running soon, I am fucking going home!!! I can't get payroll done and, dammit, I want to get paid this week!!!!!

what does the internet have to do with payroll?

FYI - I need to log on to the company server to do the payroll. No Internet, no company server.

About time you answered his question.