2012 Candidates

[Brampton]

So I'm totally late to the conversation but who ever voted for Bachmann in the poll was messing around, right? Otherwise they should go and :killme:

[Brampton]

I have to admit, from an outsiders point of view, the entertainment value of this convo is great. :thanks:

[Pete Nice]

You know what I find interesting. Everyone loves, respects, idolizes and honors Police Officers and Military members, yet everyone is so easy to overlook the fact that 95% of those police officers and military members vote republican.

So they are good enough to put their lives on the line for you but how they vote as a whole is not good enough?

Everyone respects them and recognizes them as being brave and courageous, but that doesn't mean everyone should be required to think the same way.

No two people think the same way, but why do we trust our lives to Police and Soldiers and discount their opinions?

[Hondo]

No two people think the same way, but why do we trust our lives to Police and Soldiers and discount their opinions?

You wanna know why? Because at a basic level most people think they're intellectually superior to those that strap on a weapon and protect the population. I don't know if it's a conscious thought or not but I know it exists. I've seen it firsthand for years in people that are immediately dismissive of those in LE or the military. Aside from the obvious fallacy of that line of thinking I always exploited it. I'd much rather be underestimated than overestimated.

[Pete Nice]

No two people think the same way, but why do we trust our lives to Police and Soldiers and discount their opinions?

You wanna know why? Because at a basic level most people think they're intellectually superior to those that strap on a weapon and protect the population. I don't know if it's a conscious thought or not but I know it exists. I've seen it firsthand for years in people that are immediately dismissive of those in LE or the military. Aside from the obvious fallacy of that line of thinking I always exploited it. I'd much rather be underestimated than overestimated.

I guess people forget that to be an officer in the military, something around 20% of the total military, you need to have a 4 year college degree. And that West Point is probably one of the top 5 educations in the country. And that at least 40% of the enlisted corp also have at least some college.

Also, there is no police force left that does not require at least 60 college credits for new officers to even be hired.

[Beckster]

Obama has accomplished a lot...unfortunately it's all bad. Please enlighten me...what exactly has he done? .

I'm in Michigan... Where the Number 1 industry is automotive, Probably 45% of the people I know or are related to work in or have worked in that industry. I was trying like hell to get into it, too, because the money is damn good (well, technically, I am in it now). The bailouts to GM and Chrysler have saved a lot of jobs in a state that has been struggling badly. My guy is still employed and working hard because of that. GM actually has paid their money back with interest. I do know that Chrysler is still struggling, but improving. And I just love how Ford was able to straighten their shit out without help, but it was quite scary there for years. Not to mention that the "Big 3" are back on top of the list Korea and Japan have been thru hell and that has hurt the imports.

I know a lot of people were against it, but I am glad the bail out was done.. I sure as hell didn't want to become a farmer. Too bad the banks weren't bailed out with a payment plan to pay it all back with interest.

[Beckster]

Maybe it's time for another Revolution. Let's over-throw these sold-out, greedy politicians and find legit people to run the show.
:riot: :riot: :riot:

:grin: We'll call the new nation DudeBro Nation. We pledge allegiance to the flag of the DudeBro Nation, and to the awesomeness for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty, and nussies for all.

[Hondo]

GM actually has paid their money back with interest.

Really? Think again grasshoppa

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GM and their assets would have been purchased by someone else. The Germans would have picked up all of Chrysler. These bailouts are all smoke and mirrors. ANd they did nothing to change the chronic mismanagement of these companies that got them in this mess in the first place.

Don't even get me started on those motherfuckers in the bank bailouts. Checked out your credit card interest rate lately? Paying your money back with your money. Yeah...that's progress.

[Joe]

:crank:

See that is the thing with lefties, they never vary from the party line and won't listen to what anyone else has to say. Just b/c Obama is one of your liberal leftie buddies doesn't mean you have to :atm:

I just didn't want to respond because I don't see any good coming out of this discussion.

I really dislike the 2 party system. I republicans are crazy and I don't trust the democrats. Picking Obama was just picking the best of the worst. Who knows, maybe next year I'll vote for Romney.

[Rydrum]

No two people think the same way, but why do we trust our lives to Police and Soldiers and discount their opinions?

You wanna know why? Because at a basic level most people think they're intellectually superior to those that strap on a weapon and protect the population. I don't know if it's a conscious thought or not but I know it exists. I've seen it firsthand for years in people that are immediately dismissive of those in LE or the military. Aside from the obvious fallacy of that line of thinking I always exploited it. I'd much rather be underestimated than overestimated.

While Hondo may be correct in the dumbassness of many. I can tell you why I personally wouldn't just follow their opinion's* that being said I never dismiss an opinion that has merit out of hand.


1) you go with someone in their specialty. (understand the example is just for illustration, I couldn't think of better ones)

If I get sick, I wouldn't go to a police officer for their opinion- you go to an MD/DO etc.
If the economy is in trouble- I would look to the suggestions of economist not military or police.
If I want to learn how something functions I would look to a scientist or an engineer.

2) Just because something is the popular opinion doesn't mean its correct. Just because a lot of military and police vote republican doesn't mean they are correct.
Back in the day males overwhelmingly thought women shouldn't have the right to vote (jokes aside) that was clearly stupid thinking. Just because a lot of some group of people have an opinion on something, doesn't mean I am buying it .


*I should point out that by opinion here, I do not just mean- "stance on a topic". I am referring to instances when no correct or factual solution exists, and differing thoughts have some evidence of validity.

[Hondo]

I don't disagree with any of what you posted Rydrum...not in the least. The point I think Pete is trying to make though is that the military and police tend to see people and the world without any rose-colored glasses. Hence the conservative votes. They see the reality of liberal thought in its real-world apllication and vote against it accordingly. I wish the liberal ideas worked...and that people were basically good. But they don't and they aren't.

[Joe]

Well at least Hondo and Rydrum are getting along again.

[ap bikini team]

I am curious as to who Paul thinks is a good canidate

Kind of tough. Personally I like Ron Paul. He's been on the same platform since he was first in office and hasn't wavered like Romney. However, I don't think he's got the mainstream support to get the nomination. It's "Hip" and "Cool" for those idiots at Occupy Wall Streets to extol his virtue, but it's only hype. Not one of those hippy assholes would actually vote for him, simply because he'll have an "R" next to his name. Cain has some good ideas, but his 9% national sales tax ONLY works if it never goes up. France introduced a similar consumption tax, and has risen nearly 300% since it started. His foreign policy is coming along, but he seems to be happy to lean on the "I'm a business man, not a politician" crutch, rather than actually learn about what someone who wants to be president needs to know. Rick Perry is too dumb to get it, and too many people will compare him to Bush and make him untouchable. Huntsman isn't bad either, but his support is non-existent.

If I could combine Ron Paul, Cain and Huntsman I'd be happy. However, one of the problems I'll have with whatever candidate is they are not going to be for any more regulation, and one glaring loop hole is out there. One way to get this country back on track is to get gas prices lower. There is no facet of our lives that aren't touched by gas. A way to bring it down is to regulate the OTC (Over the Counter) oil trade. There are economists that believe just mandating that you identify yourself when making a purchase (currently anyone can buy millions of barrels for investment or to simply artificially inflate prices, without giving ANY FORM OF IDENTIFICATION or RECORD OF SALE), will cause a 50% cut in the traffic and lucrative market, causing the cost of crude to plummet. Regulate it even further to allow holding investment firms from buying gas as part of their portfolio, and it drops even more (there are currently more barrels of oil held in portfolio and holding houses, than available on the open market) Venezuela's Citgo provides their people with gas at $.17 a gallon with ZERO government subsidies. Even with exchange rates and our road and gas taxes, the cost of a gallon should be less than $1.50.

Obama isn't for me. He'd rather play politics with his base (not saying most reps aren't doing the same), than do anything real. He'll announce something that he KNOWS will never make it out of the house, just so he can blame them, rather than make real policies that have a chance. He'd rather pander to environmentalists than allow Canada to build a pipeline to the gulf, providing us with thousands of jobs both creating the pipeline and maintaining it, AND helping out a real ally and providing cheaper crude that could truly drop our dependence on foreign oil by trading with our most faithful ally.

He'd rather shove the Chevy Volt down our throats, boasting we need alternative energy without ensuring that the infrastructure needed to make it a viable car choice. Even worse, no one wants it. The only reason it's sold anything is because government agencies are getting subsidized to buy them. It's 15k over priced and inferior (The Nissan Leaf gets 200 more miles per charge and is 15k less than the Volt).

I don't really see who is going to be a viable option against Obama, I just know I won't be voting for him, regardless of who the Republicans put against him.

[Hondo]

The Chevy Cruze gets better overall mpg than the Volt does. And it's a lot less money.

There's an even easier fix to the gas price problem...require commodities traders to have a minimum 50% margin to buy and sell. As it is they are able to grossly manipulate the market with no cash stake in it. Change that alone and oil drops by half. We also should have taken a straight 25% of the Iraqi oil right off the top until we retire our debt from the war. Personally I have zero issues with a war for oil. Our very survival as a nation depends on cheap energy and if we have to kick someone's ass to get it...well better them than us.

[Chip]

The Chevy Cruze gets better overall mpg than the Volt does. And it's a lot less money.

Part of that could be how they calculate mileage. They don't actually take the cars out and drive them, it's some forumla that includes exhaust I think. Hybrids actual mpg can be way off from what's on the sticker. And the Volt doesn't use any gas as long as you drive less then 40 to 50 miles a trip, how are you supposed to calculate that mpg? After the charge runs out, it uses gas, and you could give that a number.

Also, there is a Fiat in Europe that gets over 70mpg, non hybrid. But the best Fiat here only gets 30-40 mpg. We can't get it because that engine doesn't meet our polution standards.