2012 Candidates

[Hondo]

Argentinian women are fucking outstanding. I'm headed to Buenos Aires next spring....I can't wait.

[Rydrum]

So I don't know where to stand on the issue

These are real questions and not ideologically motivated as I don't really pay attention to this stuff because I don't want to get pissed off, so if someone can just calmly explain this stuff to me:

1) Who are the 47% paying no taxes? is it mostly social security & the poor? I know that I pay a small amount of income tax, even though I make less than 15K a year.

2) Even if you did tax that 47% would we get that much money from them- I guess what I am asking, is will the return from taxing the 47% = the minor increase in taxes to the top 1-3%? Why not do both?

3) What are successful economies taxing people at? I know that there is a huge divide between the richest and poorest in our country- so who has a model that works?

4) given the way income is distributed in this country, (hugely positively skewed)- doesn't it make sense to tax the rich at higher % or am I missing something?

5) Is there a way to increase the tax corporations directly without hitting the top people directly?

My last point is this- I would vote republican (for economic reasons) in the next election except they are all FUCKING RETARDED when it comes to things that matter to me personally (science, individual rights, etc).
Someone mentioned Romney - dude is a member of a cult (mormon) with the most bizarre beliefs.
How can you seriously vote for someone like that? I guess I might just not vote again because this 2 party system sucks...

[Pete Nice]

So I don't know where to stand on the issue

These are real questions and not ideologically motivated as I don't really pay attention to this stuff because I don't want to get pissed off, so if someone can just calmly explain this stuff to me:

1) Who are the 47% paying no taxes? is it mostly social security & the poor? I know that I pay a small amount of income tax, even though I make less than 15K a year.

2) Even if you did tax that 47% would we get that much money from them- I guess what I am asking, is will the return from taxing the 47% = the minor increase in taxes to the top 1-3%? Why not do both?

3) What are successful economies taxing people at? I know that there is a huge divide between the richest and poorest in our country- so who has a model that works?

4) given the way income is distributed in this country, (hugely positively skewed)- doesn't it make sense to tax the rich at higher % or am I missing something?

5) Is there a way to increase the tax corporations directly without hitting the top people directly?

My last point is this- I would vote republican (for economic reasons) in the next election except they are all FUCKING RETARDED when it comes to things that matter to me personally (science, individual rights, etc).
Someone mentioned Romney - dude is a member of a cult (mormon) with the most bizarre beliefs.
How can you seriously vote for someone like that? I guess I might just not vote again because this 2 party system sucks...

I will defer to Hondo on #1.

#2 - Yes it would make a difference. People on social security and unemployment DO pay taxes on that income. Who doesn't pay, people who work under the table, people who cheat on their taxes, people who write EVERYTHING off as a business expense even though their company makes money and they live in 1/2 mill dollar houses(which really goes hand in hand with cheaters) and my biggest issue.......people on motherfucking welfare. If they did away with Welfare cash payments, not only would it free up tons of money for the fed budget, it would force those people to find jobs, most often low paying McDonald's type jobs. Then they would be paying taxes while receiving basically the same amount of money as they were on welfare, maybe a little more, but now they are at least contributing to society instead of draining it.

#3 - I do not know, I will defer to someone else.

#4 - I think what you are overlooking is, if we tax the shit out of the super rich, they will just outright leave. They will take their businesses to South America, Asia and Eastern Europe and we would be stuck losing the taxes they do pay, both personal and corporate, as well as jobs and income into the American economy. The super rich can live where ever they want and just come back to the states to visit whenever they want or for business meetings and such. And that is exactly what would happen if we taxed the shit out of them, we would actually end up loosing money. Of course the Liberals have yet to EVER realize this.

#5 - not exactly sure what you are asking, but anytime corporate of super rich will get taxed more, we run the risk of losing them and any income and taxes they do currently provide.

The two party system does suck and it is up to the silent majority to rise up and vote in a third party guy or independent and try to change this bullshit.

[Hondo]

As to the 47%...I'm referring to Federal income taxes....they do pay FICA, sales and property taxes. Still the government derives almost half of its revenue from the income tax and allowing half the people to take a free pass is bullshit. The tax system in this country is an absolute goat-fuck. The whole thing needs torn down, burned and rebuilt from scratch. Cain's radical 9-9-9 plan is the only thing I've seen that even begins to address the ridiculous inequities in the current system. I'm not saying it'll work, but at least that guy is thinking in the right direction.

Taxation is a hugely tricky issue. If you lay it on the corporate people it stifles the economy and people lose jobs. If you lay it on the rich they say "AMF" and jet off to some island tax haven. Flat or fair-use taxes seem to be a better alternative to me because everybody pays....even the people who are here illegally.

As I've said before....tax increases are going to have to happen for everyone. I'd like to see corporate tax structure changed so that there are major incentives for domestic corporations to keep jobs here....you keep x% of jobs here and you get y% tax credit. You ship your jobs to Mexico or India and we tariff your ass to make you rethink that decision.

A true global economy such as the one we have now is unprecedented in human history. 50 years ago nothing anyone else did made a bit of difference to us here in America. Now everything matters because it is so intertwined. When other nations are allowed to use cheap labor (Mexico, China, India) it makes it extraordinarily difficult to balance trade with them. The only leverage we have is food and for some reason we seem to have a big issue in using that to balance things. Personally I suspect that if a price of a bushel of wheat or corn were equated with a barrel of oil we could have some major impact on what's going on. Food is the only weapon we have and we won't use it because we're too nice (stupid)

[Chip]

Can we get this pole re-writen to include Hondo?

[Rydrum]

I gotcha, what you are saying make sense about the super rich leaving- but can't we make some sort of law that if you do X% in business here you have to pay taxes here before you can move the money offshore?
It seems that all of us agree that we need to close loopholes, make sure businesses pay- that should be A #1 priority.

Question for Hondo or Pete, when you say 47% of americans don't pay taxes is that 47% of the people over 18 in the 310,000,000? Or is that some sort of work adjusted number?

Also Pete mentioned welfare- does anyone know the % on welfare or how much is actually given away? I feel like I hear both sides talking about this shit and NO one gives me a number... and you guys know how I feel about numbers.

Thanks guys.

[Hondo]

It all depends on what you call "welfare". People have been paying into Social Security since the late 1930's. Medicare has been around almost 50 years now. These programs were designed to help elderly people who had outlived their ability to be a part of the productive workforce maintain some semblance of financial security. Nobel ideas for sure but like so many...destined for a massive train wreck at the end of the line. The only thing that douchebag Rick Perry has said that's right was when he likened Social Security to a Ponzi scheme....which it absolutely is. Of course he back-tracked away from that comment pretty fast when people got their panties in a twist. The problem is two-fold. Old people can't work and earn income like young people can. There has to be some kind of safety-net for them or else we just go Logan's Run on everybody and send them to Carousel when they hit a certain age and kill them. If you run the metrics on Social Security and Medicare you'll be fucking horrified at the avalanche of financial doom rushing down the mountain. In the next 25 years, and quite likely in less than that, both programs will go bankrupt. The baby boom generation is beginning to enter both programs en masse and without huge increases in contributions they are absolutely unsustainable.

Anyway....can you cut old people support money? Nope. Everyone knows this disaster is coming but the buck (or lack of) continually gets passed ahead for someone else to deal with. That shit sandwich is about to be a 12 course dinner for everyone. Remember where you read it first.

My understanding of the taxpayer data is that it consists of reported wage earners. You are legally required to file a tax return if you make more than a certain amount of gross income. I can't remember the exact amount but IIRC it's somewhere around $10K. There are some unique circumstances that can change that number but as a rule it's pretty accurate for most. The percentages quoted (ie. 99%, 53%, 47%) are made up of the total filing wage earners.

[Rydrum]

So... FMI my generation is fucked?

I should move to Canada eh.

[Hondo]

Anyone born after 1960 is fucked. None of that money will be there for any of us.

Best advice you'll ever get is this:

Get on board with the 3 F's

Food

Fuel

Firearms

Everything else is, or rather will be, worthless.

[Mauro]

This is all Obama has done, throw money on the floor



Its almost like he's throwing any idea up on the wall and hoping something sticks....

I will say again that the president is just a scapegoat....the real problem is those we elect to the house and senate. They are the ones with the true power and they promise the world to get elected but then get bought by lobbyists and special interests once they are in office lap: The whole system sucks IMO

[Pete Nice]

Anyone born after 1960 is fucked. None of that money will be there for any of us.

Best advice you'll ever get is this:

Get on board with the 3 F's

Food

Fuel

Firearms

Everything else is, or rather will be, worthless.

Fuel -My plan within 10 years is to have my home completely self sufficient, solar power, wind power and, water purification and generators. I will need to integrate all that shit into my home and wiring and stuff. I also have a good store of gas at home now and plan on keeping it that way. I have around 30 gallons stored at home now and would ideally like to have over 100 when the shit hits the fan. I also would like about 20 gallons of kerosene, wood for the fireplace and a future wood burning stove, maybe a small stash of coal and plenty of firestarter type stuff.

Food - Veggie gardens, canned goods, non-expiring astronaut style food and the means to hunt and fish. That should cover it.

Firearms - got them now, plan on increasing it 10 fold at least in the next 10 years. I would say ammo to go with that also.

I also think multiple forms of transportation would be good also. If the gas runs out, no cars. A dirt bike motorcycle, mountain bikes, etc will come in handy.

[Hondo]

Ideally you'd have property somewhere where there is a natural gas well drilled on the property that allows you to have a house gas tap. That would serve your energy needs for at minimum 30-50 years. A 175-250cc Enduro type motorcycle is absolutely essential. Preferably one made before 1980. I'd recommend at least 5000 rounds of ammunition per weapon. Bullets and seeds would be the currency of a SHTF world.

[i bleed green]

You know what I find interesting. Everyone loves, respects, idolizes and honors Police Officers and Military members, yet everyone is so easy to overlook the fact that 95% of those police officers and military members vote republican.

So they are good enough to put their lives on the line for you but how they vote as a whole is not good enough?

Everyone respects them and recognizes them as being brave and courageous, but that doesn't mean everyone should be required to think the same way.

[MattInMinnesota]

So I'm totally late to the conversation but who ever voted for Bachmann in the poll was messing around, right? Otherwise they should go and :killme:

[Hondo]

I'd vote for Bachmann and Palin in some milf porn...but that's about it