Are law enforcement cameras an invasion of privacy?

[Joe]

WAit... Backup. What is the argument here?

[Brian]

WAit... Backup. What is the argument here?

I think it's about who is a better debater, Rydrum or Hondo?

[Rydrum]

WAit... Backup. What is the argument here?

I think it's about who is a better debater, Rydrum or Hondo?

I am pretty sure I would lose on that one. and yeah the thread got derailed. Although if you go back through I think hondo and i agreed on the major points.

[Joe]

I still want to knwo what the current debate is about.

[Hondo]

Again, how many professors are currently being treated for PTSD? What is the suicide rate of professors versus law enforcement? Or how about the substance abuse rate? The disproportionate numbers speak for themselves. The grossly higher incidence of the above is prima facie evidence that that kind of work is FAR more stressful and damaging, both emotionally and physically.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not belittling the difficulty of doing PH.D work. And I do know something about it....my brother is currently finishing his Ph.D at Iowa right now. It is unquestionably difficult and a pain in the ass. I wouldn't have the tolerance for it at my age. The first time some uppity intellectual tried to get snotty with me I'd probably break his face. That said though you're going to spend 7 or 8 semesters on a dissertation. All in the comfort of climate-controlled safety. If you are among the 30% that fail out you're still alive and can go do something else with your life. If you fail on the street you're just dead. That's hard to rebound from.

[Joe]

I feel like I'm being ignored...

[LeNeve]

I feel like I'm being ignored...

road house

[LeNeve]

What is stress in academia? I know the word, but I don't get the stress from it.

Stress from teaching? Stress from being a student? Stress from being a student teacher?

Im not a genius, and had to look up a few words that were posted, but it didn't stress me out, and I learned some new words that I can't wait to drop on people.

I know this debate took a total left turn about things other than traffic cameras.

I don't get the comparison between stress of a police officer, and the stress of an academic. Seems like 2 different kinds of stress, completely different.

I've never had my hair stand on end, have massive amounts of adrenaline surging through my body , and have to make a split second decision what to do when I was in school.

My kids are running around so if this seems like a retarded post, its just because of the stress of having little kids around.

[LeNeve]

It would suck to spend 7 to 8 semesters on a dissertation island. That's like that show survivor!!!!

[LeNeve]

This debate has been awesome, even though I had to look up definitions for a bunch of words.

Still not sure what a meritocracy is though.

[Hondo]

Still not sure what a meritocracy is though.

Don't stress over it....a meritocracy is much like having a bi-curious, supermodel girlfriend who's an heiress to a liquor fortune. We can all dream about having one but it's never going to happen.

In short...it's the idea where the people whom are the best qualified and most capable are chosen for whatever job or position is at hand. A system where politics, favortism, race, creed, or sex make no difference.

[Rydrum]

Again, how many professors are currently being treated for PTSD? What is the suicide rate of professors versus law enforcement? Or how about the substance abuse rate? The disproportionate numbers speak for themselves. The grossly higher incidence of the above is prima facie evidence that that kind of work is FAR more stressful and damaging, both emotionally and physically.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not belittling the difficulty of doing PH.D work. And I do know something about it....my brother is currently finishing his Ph.D at Iowa right now. It is unquestionably difficult and a pain in the ass. I wouldn't have the tolerance for it at my age. The first time some uppity intellectual tried to get snotty with me I'd probably break his face. That said though you're going to spend 7 or 8 semesters on a dissertation. All in the comfort of climate-controlled safety. If you are among the 30% that fail out you're still alive and can go do something else with your life. If you fail on the street you're just dead. That's hard to rebound from.

First of all you still are not getting it- it doesn't matter what the example is. Academia was just an example, it has no real relevance so I am not sure why it is continuing to be brought up or why he is arguing it. [In fact I never said anywhere that academia was more stressful].

Second, this answers Joe's question: Hondo claimed " if you haven't lived it, you don't know/can't make a claim about it" I say thats bull.

After making that statement, Hondo then said that something he hasn't done isn't as hard as something he has done and if he follows his own argument, cant make that claim.

So either Hondo agrees with me that his initial claim is bull, or he has to retract his statement saying one is more stressful because he hasn't experienced both.

[Hondo]

Well...academia was your example and it you used it more than once. What I said was this. Having lived in both the civilian world and the LE world, and knowing many others who have done both, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to correlate almost identical impressions in that target sample. The stress-related physical and emotional problems that I cited earlier also bear out my contention. The more varied your life experience is the more qualified you are to make that judgement. You are correct in one thing though. I can't tell you exactly how it feels to do jobs that I haven't done. But it's not difficult at all to be able to discern which things are easier to deal with and which ones aren't. That's called common sense. (Actually rare sense...since so damn few people seem to have any of it).

I retract nothing. There are some things, certainly not all, but some, that if you haven't experienced you can't have the foggiest notion of what they are like.

[Rydrum]

Ofcourse you retract nothing, this situation is akin to the fundamental attribution error.

Ask most people who have completed a dissertation and they will say something like "you can't imagine it is like unless you do it" just like you said about law enforcement.

Essentially what people think is: the experiences you have been through can't be understood by others, but you can understand the ones other's have been through. That is exactly what you did in this thread, and I am NOT calling you out or personally attacking you on it, just pointing out that it is a flaw in our thinking. That everyone does.

I have known about the Fundamental Attribution Error for 8 years and I still do it.

There are some things, certainly not all, but some, that if you haven't experienced you can't have the foggiest notion of what they are like.

And who decided that? Just because you can't imagine it or didn't have the foggiest doesn't mean others can't.

I still say its bull- just because you haven't experienced something doesn't mean you can't relate to it, understand it, or its impact. I have never broken my arm- but I have broken bones and had injuries so I am pretty sure I can gauge what it would be like. My nussie is still alive but I can imagine the pain and heartache someone would feel if their loved one died.

So while I have never been shot at, I have been in dangerous situations, for instance- a car accident that was close to being fatal and I am sure that can situation can generalize to it. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they are equivalent, I am saying that you can use previous previous encounters to be able to relate to it.

[Hondo]

You can imagine what it must be like but it is just a guess. Imagination is not the same as personal experience. The closer you get to an experience the better your guess may be but the bottom line is that it is still a guess. For example I thought I knew what it would be like when my first child was born.....but the emotions and feeling of actually seeing it firsthand was FAR more than I imagined it would be. You think you know, but you really don't. Isolated incidents like injuries and car wrecks are not the same as constant exposure either. Random occurrences are easier to process and deal with than things that continue on and don't go away. Another example...my girlfriend's son fell asleep driving home from work and drove left of center and hit a tractor-trailer and was killed. I've been around death more than most and I wouldn't have even pretended to know what she was feeling (and still feels). I have an idea, and I can relate to a degree, but it damn sure isn't the same as actually living through it.

Truthfully I don't think we're all that far apart here. The majority of life tends to fall into things that are fairly equal that people can relate to and understand. However the big things that tend to have profound impact on our lives do have to be experienced personally to be fully understood.