N. Korea threatens to attack US, S. Korea warships

[Joe]

N. Korea threatens to attack US, S. Korea warships
By HYUNG-JIN KIM – 21 hours ago

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — North Korea threatened military action Wednesday against U.S. and South Korean warships plying the waters near the Koreas' disputed maritime border, raising the specter of a naval clash just days after the regime's underground nuclear test.

Pyongyang, reacting angrily to Seoul's decision to join an international program to intercept ships suspected of aiding nuclear proliferation, called the move tantamount to a declaration of war.

"Now that the South Korean puppets were so ridiculous as to join in the said racket and dare declare a war against compatriots," North Korea is "compelled to take a decisive measure," the Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea said in a statement carried by state media.

The North Korean army called it a violation of the armistice the two Koreas signed in 1953 to end their three-year war, and said it would no longer honor the treaty.

South Korea's military said Wednesday it was prepared to "respond sternly" to any North Korean provocation.

North Korea's latest belligerence comes as the U.N. Security Council debates how to punish the regime for testing a nuclear bomb Monday in what President Barack Obama called a "blatant violation" of international law.

Ambassadors from the five permanent veto-wielding council members — the United States, Russia, China, Britain and France — as well as Japan and South Korea were working out the details of a new resolution.

The success of any new sanctions would depend on how aggressively China, one of North Korea's only allies, implements them.

"It's not going too far to say that China holds the keys on sanctions," said Kim Sung-han, an international relations professor at Seoul's Korea University.

South Korea, divided from the North by a heavily fortified border, had responded to the nuclear test by joining the Proliferation Security Initiative, a U.S.-led network of nations seeking to stop ships from transporting the materials used in nuclear bombs.

Seoul previously resisted joining the PSI in favor of seeking reconciliation with Pyongyang, but pushed those efforts aside Monday after the nuclear test in the northeast.

North Korea warned Wednesday that any attempt to stop, board or inspect its ships would constitute a "grave violation."

The regime also said it could no longer promise the safety of U.S. and South Korean warships and civilian vessels in the waters near the Korea's western maritime border.

"They should bear in mind that the (North) has tremendous military muscle and its own method of strike able to conquer any targets in its vicinity at one stroke or hit the U.S. on the raw, if necessary," the army said in a statement carried by state media.

The maritime border has long been a flashpoint between the two Koreas. North Korea disputes the line unilaterally drawn by the United Nations at the end of the Koreas' three-year war in 1953, and has demanded it be redrawn further south.

The truce signed in 1953 and subsequent military agreements call for both sides to refrain from warfare, but doesn't cover the waters off the west coast.

North Korea has used the maritime border dispute to provoke two deadly naval skirmishes — in 1999 and 2002.

On Wednesday, the regime promised "unimaginable and merciless punishment" for anyone daring to challenge its ships.

Pyongyang also reportedly restarted its weapons-grade nuclear plant, South Korean media said.

The Chosun Ilbo newspaper said U.S. spy satellites detected signs of steam at the North's Yongbyon nuclear complex, an indication it may have started reprocessing nuclear fuel. The report, which could not be confirmed, quoted an unidentified government official. South Korea's Yonhap news agency also carried a similar report.

The move would be a major setback for efforts aimed at getting North Korea to disarm.

North Korea had stopped reprocessing fuel rods as part of an international deal. In 2007, it agreed to disable the Yongbyon reactor in exchange for aid and demolished a cooling tower at the complex.

The North has about 8,000 spent fuel rods which, if reprocessed, could allow it to harvest 13 to 18 pounds (six to eight kilograms) of plutonium — enough to make at least one nuclear bomb, experts said. North Korea is believed to have enough plutonium for at least a half dozen atomic bombs.

Further ratcheting up tensions, North Korea test-fired five short-range missiles over the past two days, South Korean officials confirmed.

Russia's foreign minister said world powers must be firm with North Korea but take care to avoid inflaming tensions further.

The world "must not rush to punish North Korea just for punishment's sake," Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said, adding that Russia wants a Security Council resolution that will help restart stalled six-nation talks over North Korea's nuclear programs and will not provoke Pyongyang into even more aggressive activity.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak urged officials to "remain calm" in the face of North Korean threats, said Lee Dong-kwan, his spokesman.

Pyongyang isn't afraid of any repercussions for its actions, a North Korean newspaper, the Minju Joson, said Wednesday.

"It is a laughable delusion for the United States to think that it can get us to kneel with sanctions," it said in an editorial. "We've been living under U.S. sanctions for decades, but have firmly safeguarded our ideology and system while moving our achievements forward. The U.S. sanctions policy toward North Korea is like striking a rock with a rotten egg."

Associated Press writer Steve Gutterman in Moscow and Edith M. Lederer at the United Nations contributed to this report.

[Pete Nice]

Two questions:

1. How the fuck is there enough space in North Korea to perform Nuke tests? I have been there (South and DMZ, not North), not a huge country.

2. Would China still back N Korea in a war? I say NO. Let's wrap up this Iraq thing, break down Afghanistan to advisers only take out N Korea.

[Joe]

Two questions:

1. How the fuck is there enough space in North Korea to perform Nuke tests? I have been there (South and DMZ, not North), not a huge country.

2. Would China still back N Korea in a war? I say NO. Let's wrap up this Iraq thing, break down Afghanistan to advisers only take out N Korea.

You have to wonder who else is going to back N Korea. Some of those other countries might go against us in any decisions just to keep a war out of their area.

[Brampton]

IMO, if N.Korea decides to start shit, they have to have support.....right?

Here's my list:

Russia (theyre untrustworthy)
China (theyre in an industrial revolution and war can put you over the top)
A Couple MidEast Countries
And possibly an EasternBloc Country or two.

[Derick]

and those oriental countries always forget heroshima maybe we ought to remind them what happens when you fuck with the US

[Joe]

Russia fears Korea conflict could go nuclear -Ifax
By Oleg Shchedrov
MOSCOW, May 27 (Reuters) - Russia is taking precautionary security measures because it fears tensions over North Korea's atomic test could descend into nuclear war, news agencies quoted an official as saying on Wednesday.


Interfax quoted an unnamed security source as saying that a stand-off triggered by Pyongyang's nuclear test on Monday could affect the security of Russia's far eastern regions, which border North Korea.

"The need has emerged for an appropriate package of precautionary measures," the source said.

"We are not talking about stepping up military efforts but rather about measures in case a military conflict, perhaps with the use of nuclear weapons, flares up on the Korean Peninsula," he added.

North Korea has responded to international condemnation of its nuclear test and a threat of new U.N. sanctions by saying it is no longer bound by an armistice signed with South Korea at the end of the 1950-53 Korean War.

Itar-Tass news agency quoted a Russian foreign ministry official as saying the "war of nerves" over North Korea should not be allowed to grow into a military conflict, a clear reference to Pyongyang's decision to drop out of the armistice deal.

"DANGEROUS BRINKMANSHIP"

"We assume that a dangerous brinkmanship, a war of nerves, is under way, but it will not grow into a hot war," the official told Tass. "Restraint is needed."

The foreign ministry often uses statements sourced to unnamed officials, leaked through official news agencies, to lay down its position on sensitive issues.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has condemned North Korean tests but his foreign ministry has warned the international community against hasty decisions.

Russia is a veto-wielding permanent member of the U.N. Security Council, which is preparing to discuss the latest stand-off over the peninsula.

In the past, Moscow has been reluctant to support Western calls for sanctions. But Russian officials in the United Nations have said that this time the authority of the top international body is at stake.

"We cannot provide cover for any actions that lead to the destabilisation of the non-proliferation regime," Interfax quoted its foreign ministry source as saying.

The Interfax source made clear Russia has not finally made up its mind on the U.N. vote yet. "We should not subscribe to any specific option beforehand," the source said.

However, the Tass source indicated Russia could back sanctions.

"The (U.N. Security Council) resolution is most likely to involve sanction-like measures," he said. "The U.N. Security Council is engaged in a tough work."

Copyright 2008 Reuters

[Pete Nice]

IMO, if N.Korea decides to start shit, they have to have support.....right?

Here's my list:

Russia (theyre untrustworthy)
China (theyre in an industrial revolution and war can put you over the top)
A Couple MidEast Countries
And possibly an EasternBloc Country or two.

Being married to a Russian, I know a little about Russian politics. They will never back N Korea with force or China in any way. They might verbally back them, but would never get involved.

I don't think China would get involved b/c the economic upswing of war would never offset the losses that would occur in such a war.

I could see Iran get involved just b/c they are itching to cause a stink somewhere, but know they will get their asses kicked one on one.

I don't think the Eastern block will get involved, most of them are trying to improve US relations. Former Asian USSR territories are more likley to gett involved, but they are all so weak, it is highly doubtful. Plus the US has bases for Iraq and Afghanistan in most of those countries already, so that is boosting their economy.

[Pete Nice]

If there were to be a WWIII to break out, and it was the US against either China or N Korea at the center, Russia would be on the US side, if they were involved at all.

I would see it something like this:

ALLIES: US and Canada, Europe, Australia, Japan, S Korea, India, South Africa, Mexico.

ALLIES on the fence: Most of Latin America, Most of Africa, smaller Asian countries like Thailand, Russia.

AXIS OF EVIL: North Korea, Iran, Syria, Vietnam, China

AXIS on the fence: Pakistan, SE Asia, most of the Middle East, Venezuela, Indonesia

NEUTRAL: Switzerland, Cuba, Tahiti, the Lost Island.

[Joe]

IMO, if N.Korea decides to start shit, they have to have support.....right?

Here's my list:

Russia (theyre untrustworthy)
China (theyre in an industrial revolution and war can put you over the top)
A Couple MidEast Countries
And possibly an EasternBloc Country or two.

Being married to a Russian, I know a little about Russian politics. They will never back N Korea with force or China in any way. They might verbally back them, but would never get involved.

I don't think China would get involved b/c the economic upswing of war would never offset the losses that would occur in such a war.

I could see Iran get involved just b/c they are itching to cause a stink somewhere, but know they will get their asses kicked one on one.

I don't think the Eastern block will get involved, most of them are trying to improve US relations. Former Asian USSR territories are more likley to gett involved, but they are all so weak, it is highly doubtful. Plus the US has bases for Iraq and Afghanistan in most of those countries already, so that is boosting their economy.

Whatever happens we can't really afford another ground war.

[Brian]

Another missile test:

NKorea test-fires missile, slams Security Council
By SIYOUNG LEE, Associated Press Writer Siyoung Lee, Associated Press Writer – 48 mins ago

YEONPYEONG, South Korea – North Korea defiantly test-fired another short-range missile Friday and warned it would act in "self-defense" if provoked by the U.N. Security Council, which is considering tough sanctions against the communist regime for conducting a nuclear test.

The North fired the missile from its Musudan-ni launch site on the east coast, a South Korean government official said. He spoke on condition of anonymity, citing the sensitivity of the matter. It is the sixth short-range missile North Korea has test-fired since Monday's nuclear test.

The official did not provide further details. But the Yonhap news agency cited an unidentified South Korean government official as saying the missile is a new type of ground-to-air missile estimated to have a range of up to 160 miles (260 kilometers).

With tensions high on the Korean peninsula, Chinese fishing boats left the region, possibly to avoid any maritime skirmishes between the two Koreas. But U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates said the situation was not a crisis and no additional U.S. troops would be sent to the region.

North Korea, meanwhile, warned it would retaliate if provoked.

"If the U.N. Security Council makes a further provocation, it will be inevitable for us to take further self-defense measures," the North's Foreign Ministry said in a statement carried by the official Korean Central News Agency.

North Korea also accused the Security Council of hypocrisy.

"There is a limit to our patience," the statement said. "The nuclear test conducted in our nation this time is the Earth's 2,054th nuclear test. The five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council have conducted 99.99 percent of the total nuclear tests."

The North has been strident since its test — which it has also called a self-defensive measure. It did not specify what further action it was considering in response to U.N. resolutions, or what it would consider a provocation.

Fears have increased of military skirmishes, particularly in disputed waters off the western coast, after North Korea conducted the nuclear test on Monday and then renounced the truce that has kept peace between the Koreas since the Korean War ended in 1953.

The waters were the site of two deadly clashes in 1999 and 2002.

From Yeonpyeong, the South Korean island closest to North Korea, about a dozen Chinese ships could be seen pulling out of port in the North and heading elsewhere. South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported that more than 280 Chinese vessels were fishing in the area earlier this week, but the number has dropped to about 140.

It was not clear if the Chinese vessels, in the area for the crabbing season, were told by the North to leave or if they were leaving on their own for fear of clashes at sea.

"For now, it seems quiet," said local construction worker Lee Hae-un, 43. "But if North Korea provokes us with military power, I think our government should actively and firmly counteract it."

South Korean and U.S. troops facing North Korea raised their surveillance on Thursday to its highest level since 2006, when North Korea tested its first nuclear device. About 28,000 American troops are stationed across the South.

North Korea, whose 1.2-million strong military is one of the world's largest, says it is merely preparing to defend itself against what it says are plans by the United States to launch a pre-emptive strike to overthrow its communist government.

The United States has repeatedly denied any intention to attack North Korea.

In Washington, the Army's top officer, Gen. George Casey, expressed confidence that the U.S. could fight a conventional war against North Korea if necessary, despite continuing conflicts elsewhere.

But Gates, en route to Singapore for regional defense talks, tried to lower the temperature.

"I don't think that anybody in the (Obama) administration thinks there is a crisis," Gates told reporters aboard his military jet early Friday.

Meanwhile, talks at the U.N. Security Council over possible sanctions for the nuclear test were moving forward slowly.

Russia's U.N. ambassador said Thursday there was wide agreement among key world powers on what a new U.N. resolution should include, but said putting the elements together will take time because the issues are "complicated."

A list of proposals was sent Wednesday to the five permanent veto-wielding council members — the United States, Russia, China, Britain and France — and the two countries most closely affected by the nuclear test, Japan and South Korea.

Diplomats said a draft of the proposed resolution is not expected to be circulated until next week.

The two Koreas technically remain at war because they signed a truce, not a peace treaty, in 1953. North Korea disputes the U.N.-drawn maritime border off their west coast and has positioned artillery guns along the west coast on its side of the border, Yonhap said.

Traffic at the border between the Koreas appeared to be normal. Yonhap said more than 340 South Korean workers crossed to a joint industrial complex in the North.

The two Koreas are also maintaining a communication line to exchange information on commercial vessels passing through each other's waters, Unification Ministry spokeswoman Lee Jong-joo said.

[Joe]

It really just looks like they want to fuck with us to provoke something.

This is just yet another reason to get the troops out of the Middle East.

[Pete Nice]

I really am surprised we are not getting more posts on this topic. I thought when we started throwing out WWIII scenarios this thread would start to take off.

Joe you are right, we need to get out of the middle east and get ready to go fight in Korea. The military needs a few years to rebuild, rest, repair and retrain. Maybe they can get some better freaking body armor before invading N Korea.

I honest LEE believe Russia and the US will be on the same side in WWIII.

[Joe]

I really am surprised we are not getting more posts on this topic. I thought when we started throwing out WWIII scenarios this thread would start to take off.

Joe you are right, we need to get out of the middle east and get ready to go fight in Korea. The military needs a few years to rebuild, rest, repair and retrain. Maybe they can get some better freaking body armor before invading N Korea.

I honest LEE believe Russia and the US will be on the same side in WWIII.

The body armor thing kills me. I once heard that it was too expensive. Really, too fucking expensive??? I've lost count of how many guys we've lost over there, but I'm pretty sure that has been expensive. If you send guys to war they are going to get shot at so they should be wearing armor. It seems like now that our main concerns should be putting some kind of armor on the transportation we are using there. Road side bombs are what really seems to be taking a lot of lives.

I don't think we'll have to deal with the same type of un uniformed threats that we had in the middle east with Korea.

At the end of the day I really wish someone else would step the fuck up and take care of this situation so we can rest.

[Pete Nice]

I really am surprised we are not getting more posts on this topic. I thought when we started throwing out WWIII scenarios this thread would start to take off.

Joe you are right, we need to get out of the middle east and get ready to go fight in Korea. The military needs a few years to rebuild, rest, repair and retrain. Maybe they can get some better freaking body armor before invading N Korea.

I honest LEE believe Russia and the US will be on the same side in WWIII.

The body armor thing kills me. I once heard that it was too expensive. Really, too fucking expensive??? I've lost count of how many guys we've lost over there, but I'm pretty sure that has been expensive. If you send guys to war they are going to get shot at so they should be wearing armor. It seems like now that our main concerns should be putting some kind of armor on the transportation we are using there. Road side bombs are what really seems to be taking a lot of lives.

I don't think we'll have to deal with the same type of un uniformed threats that we had in the middle east with Korea.

At the end of the day I really wish someone else would step the fuck up and take care of this situation so we can rest.

The French could do it, but they are too busy being cocksucking assholes. I hate the fucking French. Russia or China needs to take out N Korea. Preferably China.

[Joe]

North Korea warned Friday it would act in "self-defense" if provoked by the U.N. Security Council, which is considering tough sanctions over the communist country's nuclear test, and followed the threat with the test launch of another short-range missile.

The North fired the missile from its Musudan-ni launch site on the east coast, a South Korean government official said. He spoke on condition of anonymity, citing the sensitivity of the matter. It is the sixth short-range missile North Korea has test-fired since Monday's nuclear test.

The official did not provide further details. But the Yonhap news agency cited an unidentified South Korean government official as saying the missile is a new type of ground-to-air missile estimated to have a range of up to 160 miles (260 kilometers).

Yonhap said the missile is believed to be an improved version of the SA-5, which North Korea introduced in 1963 and deployed in eastern and western parts of the country. The SA-5 was originally produced by the Soviet Union.