Using a gun

[Joe]

If you have a license to carry, can you carry it anywhere with the exceptions of government buildings, airports and stuff like concerts? Is there a difference between having the right to conceal vs just having a license to carry other than the obvious?

My biggest question about carrying a gun is when can you use it?

- If you're walking down the street in a city and someone comes out and tells you they want your wallet or whatever what are your options? From what I've read if they have a gun pointed at you then you are legally allowed to use deadly force. What if they don't have a weapon, but you're pretty sure that if shit went down that you may lose? I mean they may not have a weapon, but after they take you down they may wind up with yours. I guess anyone would say that just giving them your wallet is the right answer so I'm not saying a robbery scenario in particular, but just a threat.

- What are your right's in your house? I know in TX you can basically shoot someone for knocking on your door, but I'm curious about the rest of the country. From what I understand in at least PA you can't shoot them unless they are in your home and posses a threat to you or your property. Does that mean I can blast someone who kicks in my door or do I have to wait to see if they are holding a weapon and give then the chance to retreat when they see mine?

- Final question... Can I shoot an animal that is a threat? I know the dog enforcement officer told me that I could have killed the dog that attacked me and my dog, but I'm sure of I discharged a firearm in my development that I would have been in some deep shit.

[ap bikini team]

It's a perceived threat. If someone kicks down your doors, and you feel threatened, you can kill them the second they walk in the door (although in CA, you better make sure the body falls in the house, or you're fucked, while some states you need to give a warning). In Jersey, if they're in the house, you can kill them. In WV, it's property (my dad and brothers have been shot at because they had permission to hunt on a guy's property but the wife didn't know and took half a dozen shot at them, luckily she was a bad shot).

I don't know the exact numbers, the I'm betting there are less muggings in right to carry states than those without them. I know it's fairly unheard of in places like WV.

I think legal gun ownership is a great thing. Thieves are going to think differently in home invasions or things like that if they know a gun lives there. Most studies show that most guns (as high as 80%) are obtained illegally. Do we need high powered rifles and auto assault guns? Hell to the no, unless you live in areas where animals can kill you if you don't have them (I.E. Alaska, where you need a .50 cal pistols and rifles to keep from being eaten by grizzly or polar bears, or wolves).

And the last one, if my dog is being torn apart by a dog, and my gun is near me, it's getting shot. I think if you report it immediately, you're in the clear. And a lot of the self defense killings are justified. It's when they start trying to cover things up or hide it, where the law comes down hard on them.

[Hondo]

As you stated it depends on where you live. Even in WV if you shoot at someone for trespassing you are going to jail for it. That shit isn't legal anywhere. Generally speaking you must be able to pass a "reasonable person" standard...and by that I mean in order to use deadly force a reasonable person would say that the circumstances you found yourself in would place you in fear of imminent serious bodily injury or death. A violent felony such as a robbery, burglary of an occupied dwelling, or assault with a weapon would certainly be adequate justification.

Some examples...some guy in a parking lot punches you in the face or threatens to. Use of deadly force is not justified. In fact even displaying a deadly weapon under that circumstance might get you locked up.

Same guy, same parking lot except this time he breaks a beer bottle and threatens you with it. Bang.

Get the idea here?

A couple more thoughts.

1) Never, and mean NEVER point a gun at someone you aren't prepared to kill deader than fried chicken. You must be mentally prepared to kill long before the situation and decision finds you. I can't emphasize the survival mindset enough.

2) If you are decent, law-abiding person and you shoot a shithead the law tends to give you the benefit of the doubt. Just make sure you leave them dead so there's only one side of the story getting told.

[Joe]

I'd like to get a handgun. My father has a few handguns, rifles and shotguns. He belongs to a big gun club in NJ and used to go from time to time with his cousin. His cousin just passed away so he doesn't really have anyone to go with. I'd like to be able to go with him and own my own. I figure if you're going to own one you should be very familiar with using it. The one thing I'm not sure about is taking it to NJ. If I transport it in the trunk in a case is that legal across state lines?

I can't imagine the need to ever carry in public. It seems like a huge liability. I can't imagine getting your face punched in and having to worry about whether or not the guy is going to knock you down and take your gun. I could totally see the need for having one at home. I live quite a long way from any real police station.

I know what you mean about the survival mindset. That would be why I don't ever think I'd want to carry outside of the house. I figure once they know you have it they either have to run or die. There's no getting it taken away from you.

[Joe]

So I came across this video and thought it was a pretty good argument for not carrying a gun.

[youtube]8QjZY3WiO9s[/youtube]

Then, I came to this conclusion...

These people are given guns and and put in a situation where they are supposed to use them. That's why they failed. Now I've never been in any type of combat and have never had a gun pulled on me so I may just be talking out of my ass. Wouldn't taking cover be the first thing you'd instinctively do? Maybe hit the ground and then reach for the weapon? That's kind of why I think the video is bullshit. I get the whole tunnel vision thing, but these guys got hit because they were trying to use the weapon more than they were trying to protect themselves.

[LeNeve]

I believe if you have a legally purchased gun, in a case, in the trunk of your car, UNLOADED, you will be fine. In my experience, if you get pulled over, and the officer asks if you have weapons, tell them you have weapons, and where they are at in your vehicle. They really appreciate the heads up in that situation.

Sometimes it's good to tell the officers that you do have a gun in the trunk, even if they don't ask. Around here anyway. Probably alot different in the more populated states.

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[LeNeve]

Joe, start off going to the gun club with your Father. You will love it. You will learn locality rules from there, and get more comfortable, and confident about guns overall.

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[Joe]

I believe if you have a legally purchased gun, in a case, in the trunk of your car, UNLOADED, you will be fine. In my experience, if you get pulled over, and the officer asks if you have weapons, tell them you have weapons, and where they are at in your vehicle. They really appreciate the heads up in that situation.

Sometimes it's good to tell the officers that you do have a gun in the trunk, even if they don't ask. Around here anyway. Probably alot different in the more populated states.

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From what I've been told you don't tell the cop shit about anything. The only exception is if you have a concealed carry permit and the weapon is around you. At the time of being pulled over I heard you give the officer your permit with your license. It's not good to say, "Hey I have a gun." Don't want the rookie on the other side of the car putting one in the back of your head because you said "gun."

[Beckster]

I would love to get my CCW. The crime around here is scary, especially with a baby on the way. I just might go get some of that bear spray or keep some hornet spray on hand instead. Hornet spray shoots 25 ft. :wink:

[LeNeve]

I believe if you have a legally purchased gun, in a case, in the trunk of your car, UNLOADED, you will be fine. In my experience, if you get pulled over, and the officer asks if you have weapons, tell them you have weapons, and where they are at in your vehicle. They really appreciate the heads up in that situation.

Sometimes it's good to tell the officers that you do have a gun in the trunk, even if they don't ask. Around here anyway. Probably alot different in the more populated states.

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From what I've been told you don't tell the cop shit about anything. The only exception is if you have a concealed carry permit and the weapon is around you. At the time of being pulled over I heard you give the officer your permit with your license. It's not good to say, "Hey I have a gun." Don't want the rookie on the other side of the car putting one in the back of your head because you said "gun."

Im just going by southwest Kansas etiquette.

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[Joe]

I would love to get my CCW. The crime around here is scary, especially with a baby on the way. I just might go get some of that bear spray or keep some hornet spray on hand instead. Hornet spray shoots 25 ft. :wink:

I'm either going to get some dog\bear mace or a telescoping taser for when I walk the dog. I'm tired of getting run down by dogs because people don't keep their dogs restrained. I figure if I carry mace I'll probably need a second can for the dog's owner. Right now I carry a hammer on my belt because kicking a dog off my dog's throat didn't turn out so well.

[Brian]

I believe you can take the gun to NJ as long as it's unloaded and locked in your trunk. But, if you only have a permit issued by PA and not NJ, the gun cannot come out of your trunk outside of PA.

[Hondo]

New Jersey law on transport: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_trans.html">http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_trans.html</a><!-- m -->


That entire presentation in the video has some merit but it is built on some seriously flawed foundations. First off there is almost no way anyone is going to out-draw an already drawn firearm in the hands of an active shooter. To put this in perspective consider this: 21' is considered the MINIMUM safe distance at which you can draw from a non-concealed holster and fire at a threat approaching you at running speed. I've seen this demonstrated many, many times in hand-to-hand combat classes. From a concealed rig it takes even longer. The premise of this video is that CCW holders are powerless to do anything...and in *some* situations that might indeed be the case. In many others it is not. If I had to gamble I'd much rather be shot down trying to fight back than to go out without a fight.

One thing the show does get right is that many firearms holders do not properly train to be effective with their firearms. Consider this....the actual hit rate in police shootings is about 20%...and this is from people who DO (allegedly) train to do this sort of thing. I don't care who you are and how good you are...putting someone in an unfamilar carry rig and asking them to acquire, draw and shoot back under stress is guaranteed to give you less than optimal results. Put me in that class and I'd do a lot better. Because I DO train. Guaranteed to win? no...but I like my odds a whole lot better.

Joe you are absolutely right on your tactical analysis on this too. You are far more likely to be effective if you can take cover or concealment (there is a big difference) and return fire than you are to just stand out in the open and blaze away like it is the damn OK Corral. Again, survival mindset and situational awareness are extremely critical.

You never ever need a weapon until you need one very, very badly.

[Joe]

Damn, handguns are expensive! My father picked up a Beretta 9mm with a 16 shot clip for $550 a few years ago, but that same gun is like $700 now. I like the feel of that one.

He's also got a Ruger 375 revolver which I've fired before. Its pretty bad ass, but its like holding a cannon.

What do you think a good pistol would be to look for? I don't want something tiny, but I don't want anything huge. Good priced ammo would be a good selling point too.

What's your take on places to buy? Gun shops, gun shows, online or what?

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[Hondo]

If at all possible I'd buy from an individual. Make sure you call the cops and run the serial first if you do that though. Buying from an individual means there is no 4473 form that links that gun to you. That's a big plus.

If you are buying for concealed carry my personal recommendation would be either a Glock 27 in .40 S&W or a Glock 26 in 9mm. Anything smaller than 9mm just doesn't impress me with terminal ballistic performance...and truthfully I'm not that sold on most 9mm rounds either. Once you decide I'll throw some advice on what rounds to buy for it. Stick with smaller frame pistols that you can actually hide...you won't like trying to conceal a medium or large frame handgun. It just doesn't work out that well.

Best advice is to go to a range and shoot several different weapons. See what feels best and what you are most comfortable with. Anyone (me included) is going to have certain bias toward or against certain pistols...go see what you like and then go from there.

Some links to check out:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.slickguns.com/">http://www.slickguns.com/</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.gunbroker.com">http://www.gunbroker.com</a><!-- m -->

Both ought to give you an idea of what real world prices are. Don't be afraid of a used gun. For example with Glocks they have a lifetime warranty. One of these days I'm going to get around to sending my 1988 Glock 17 9mm that was my first duty weapon on the PD back to Glock for a full re-build. You can't beat free.