Abortion Debate

[Joe]

Do you believe in the right to abortion?

[WyoIan]

I believe that should it be medically necessary, ie the mother will die without it, or the child will be malformed or otherwise handicapped, and in the case of incest or rape, then yes the mother should have that right.........on the other hand if your too stupid to use birth control and have a whoops baby then that is your problem to deal with, without the option for abortion.
I also believe that we should have some kind of license or such where you have to prove that you are not a retard or unfit to raise a child.
So that you are not having 10 babies that grow up on welfare!!

[Mauro]

This is where I usually break from my right leaning views and go with the woman's right to choose....HOWEVER....I think the man should have some say in this matter....not necessarily being able to force a woman to have an abortion if he doesn't want the child, BUT if he isn't in agreement to keep the child but the woman chooses to keep the baby, he should be absolved of all financial support requirements. I think this would cause women to think carefully before popping out a kid....IMO

[Hondo]

My personal view is this: first two months I'm totally ok with it. Third month gets iffy and beyond that only in cases of rape, incest or medical necessity. Beyond 3 months pretty much is infanticide to me and you better have a damn good reason.

[Pete Nice]

I agree with Ian in that it should be allowed "should it be medically necessary, ie the mother will die without it, or the child will be malformed or otherwise handicapped, and in the case of incest or rape,". Although I think it should also be a woman's right in any case, sometimes birth control actually does not work and bringing a kid into a bad situation would only make it worse and then the kids life is doomed from the start.

I agree with Mauro in that it is one of the areas I lean left instead of right and also with him in that the man should be given every opportunity to be involved.

I also agree with Hondo in that it should be first two months only, maybe first trimester only. If you don't know that you are pregnant after 60 days, your a fucking moron and probably shouldn't have a kid anyway.

[Rydrum]

I don't know where I stand on the issue, for now-

I am ok with women's choice as long as it happens by a certain point (I think 12 weeks or end of first trimester).

1) because I am man and wouldn't want to impinge on women's rights. That is- who am I to say you are HAVE to carry the baby to term.
2) a fertilized cell is not a person, Fetal development would be my cutoff point (roughly 12 weeks) albeit no one knows exactly when that is for any given fetus.
3) at that point it hasn't developed a full CNS, have capacity for pain or thought. if it reaches one of those I would say abortion should be illegal unless the circumstances given above.
Side note- the US uses "viability" - which is meaningless because there is no cut point at which a baby has ability to live, it is essentially a %chance of living, that is at any given time you have a viability of X% chance of survival. So if someone can explain what the hell they use now I would be grateful.
4) If you read freakonomics, you can see there is some evidence that legalizing abortion has led to a decrease in crime.

Wyolan-
It should be mentioned that birth control isn't 100% effective so you can not always blame that, and of-course there is no way to determine who the .1% that had birth control fail and who the 99.9% stupid are. The license for birth is interesting and a debate all in itself.

Mauro- not sure what to think on your financial responsibility issue. I am not sure you can absolve them completely but maybe lessen it if he says no from the get go. Otherwise every guy in any divorce will immediately say they wanted her to have an abortion.
Its tough because during the act, the guy made a 'conscious' decision to go for it- not sure you can just let him off by saying "oh yeah but i really didn't want one." If you have unprotected sex, you should realize this could be one of the consequences.


*Edit: Hondo & Pete both posted while I was thinking through my response, and it looks like we agree on the timetable.

[NussieT]

I agree with Hondo. Within the first two months is perfectly acceptable, after the third... in certain circumstances its ok but otherwise it's yours whether you like it or not.
I don't agree with Ian saying that it's handicapped it should be terminated though. Growing up on a farm in butt fuck nowhere you know everyone and their families. A friend who lived about 5 miles from my place his little sister was born at 27 weeks and as a result she has Cerebral Palsy. It's not like her parents could disown her or get rid of her because of it... so just because it's "handicapped" necessarily means it should be terminated. My friends sister is now 22 years old. She is in her final year of university, this spring she'll graduate with a BA in Psychology with honors. She lives in an apartment by herself in downtown Winnipeg. Perhaps for awhile she was a burden on her parents but I never once heard their parents say they regret having her. They are definitely proud of what she has become.

[Chip]

I'm pretty much anti-abortion.
But, I'm also saying that not everyone has to feel the same way as me.
So I guess I'm anti-abortion, but pro-choice. My choice is just no.
Hey insane people, look at that, see how that works?

Abortion is a shitty thing, and it would have to be a shitty situation to want one.
If I knock some chick up, and she doesn't want it, I'm doing all the convincing I can for her to keep it. I'll take it.

The whole debate is where to draw the line.
Conception? 1 month? 2 months?
That issue, I have no idea. I'm an idiot.

[NussieT]

I'm pretty much anti-abortion.
But, I'm also saying that not everyone has to feel the same way as me.
So I guess I'm anti-abortion, but pro-choice. My choice is just no.
Hey insane people, look at that, see how that works?

Abortion is a shitty thing, and it would have to be a shitty situation to want one.
If I knock some chick up, and she doesn't want it, I'm doing all the convincing I can for her to keep it. I'll take it.

The whole debate is where to draw the line.
Conception? 1 month? 2 months?
That issue, I have no idea. I'm an idiot.

Basically the first trimester is the first 3 months. At this time of growth it's creating it's lungs, heart and vital organs. Honestly I could never have an abortion, it would be a decision I would regret my entire life.

[Beckster]

Looks like we all agree...

As a chick, I will say that if I get raped and become pregnant from that, there is no way in hell I am carrying that thing. No fucking way. I do think that it should be in extreme cases like that, it is most definitely an option.

I hate when guys make remarks of how if they get a chick pregnant, they'll just pay for the abortion. That is such a dick thing to say. Take precautions cock-suckers.

I other issue is giving the kid up. I'd hate to have to make that decision, then have it hunt me down later on in life.