Did we lose the war on terror?

[Brampton]

the war on terror makes just as much sense as the war on drugs.

Its never gonna go away. What the gov't needs to do is use its intelligence more effectively.

the war on drugs has systematicly made the poor poorer, overstretched the penal and corrections system, and cost the taxpayer more money than is neccessary.......just like the "war on terror" is doing.

Psychopaths are psychopaths, and as long as there are people out there who hate others (no matter what reason), there will be "terrorists". The middle east has been the same way for thousands of years, and it is veiled under religion, when its about real estate and power.

The problem is that the US gov't went into the situation guns ablazin, but no clear plan. Then the greed took over, and it was no longer about terror, but about oil.

The government failed the public, they didn't lose the war on terror. they failed the people who trusted their elected officials, they had their tax money pissed away, and had thousands of patriots killed, from all around the world. The war never should have left afganastan and if it went to any other country it should have been pakistan, not Iraq.

[Brampton]

The time the trade center got bombed in 93 should have been more of a wake up call back then. If we fought back then, than we wouldn't be talkin about all this now.

Exactly.

But you know the attention span of all of us. two months later, we are all wondering what new movies are out, what sport is on tv, and what some idiot faggot celebrity is up to.

We had an attention span back then......we had daily newspaper, no internet, we didn't have a 24 hour news cycle that only cares about ratings.

We would have cared more then, but the Gov't was too busy killing people en mass in the former Jugoslavia.

[Brampton]

I don't want this to come off the wrong way, I'm not anti-American or support the towel head mentality.
The Terrorists were out of Afghanistan and we went into Iraq and started Raiding people's homes in the middle of the night 7 deep, guns drawn and yelling at their kids to get on the ground.

If terror is scaring the shit out of people, who do you think is doing a better job of that?

I want to counterpoint you SOOOOOO bad on this.......

Pete, I was thinking the same thing :high5:

[negadave]

I don't want this to come off the wrong way, I'm not anti-American or support the towel head mentality.
The Terrorists were out of Afghanistan and we went into Iraq and started Raiding people's homes in the middle of the night 7 deep, guns drawn and yelling at their kids to get on the ground.

If terror is scaring the shit out of people, who do you think is doing a better job of that?

I want to counterpoint you SOOOOOO bad on this.......

Don't hold back bro. I'm not gonna get all buthurt.
No, i've never served. I have alot of respect for the guys that put their lives on the line and do. It's not about that. Those guys do what their told, no matter what, cause it's their job. They aren't the ones calling the shots. I'm not trying to discount their bravery in anyway if that's what you're thinking.

[Hondo]

We haven't lost anything...yet. History will decide if Iraq was worth it but personally I think it was a shrewd move to go in there. The intelligence at the time supported the conclusions and when potentially thousands (if not millions) of American lives are at stake in a WMD terror incident it's better to be wrong and go than to do nothing. The establishment of a permanent military presence in the Persian Gulf also benefits us as like it or not we are still a petroleum-driven economy. Until that changes we would be absolutely stupid not to maintain a sizable military force to protect our access to that supply. It also keeps the Russians and the Chinese from moving in there. Whoever controls the oil wins. It's that simple.

I don't believe it started over oil but I have ZERO problem with using our military to protect our access to a natural resource we cannot survive without. The problem is we are still trying to fight wars in a "nice" way. The object of war is to kill everyone who is is your enemy or make the costs so high you break their will. We understood that in WW II but today I don't think we do. Nothing is free, cheap or easy. Especially freedom. While the 5600+ deaths in combat since 2001 are all tragic they really pale in comparison to the 13,000+ deaths PER YEAR from drunk driving don't they? We are truly our own worst enemy. It's a damn good thing WWII wasn't fought using today's rules and today's standards. We'd all be goose-stepping and listening to the Horst Wessel song daily.

[Chip]

the war on terror makes just as much sense as the war on drugs.

Its never gonna go away. What the gov't needs to do is use its intelligence more effectively.

the war on drugs has systematicly made the poor poorer, overstretched the penal and corrections system, and cost the taxpayer more money than is neccessary.......just like the "war on terror" is doing.

Psychopaths are psychopaths, and as long as there are people out there who hate others (no matter what reason), there will be "terrorists". The middle east has been the same way for thousands of years, and it is veiled under religion, when its about real estate and power.

The problem is that the US gov't went into the situation guns ablazin, but no clear plan. Then the greed took over, and it was no longer about terror, but about oil.

The government failed the public, they didn't lose the war on terror. they failed the people who trusted their elected officials, they had their tax money pissed away, and had thousands of patriots killed, from all around the world. The war never should have left afganastan and if it went to any other country it should have been pakistan, not Iraq.

Stop cluttering this thread with logic.
You make too much sense.

[Chip]

As for this whole Quran burning, the very first thought I had was, "hell yeah, how is this any different from any other book burning". But then when I read the generals statement saying that it would only endanger soldiers, I changed my mind.

People will hate, and want to kill other people. No matter what. Take religion away as the excuse, and they'll find another reason. Take that reason away, and they'll find another reason.
There is going to be shitty parts to this world. Because there are going to be poor, uneducated people in it.

I'd love to live in a world where people could burn what ever they want.
But, I'd love even more if no body wanted to burn anything because it's fucking stupid and pointless and won't change anything, except to keep this whole cycle of hate and stupidity growing.

But then again, this might be the beer talking.
The game at Ford Field was lame, but at least the suite had free food and beer. :beer:

[Jersey_Mike]

Terror is a strategy, not an enemy.

We can't win a war when we have no clear enemy. All we can do is maintain the current situation and hope to prevent future attacks through intelligence and preemptive strikes. Eventually we will be hit again. The question is do we let these attacks and threats of future attacks change who we are and what we stand for. Thats the only way we can lose.

As far as Afghanistan is concerned I understand why we went in, but have no idea what we are doing there now. The only way to fix Afghanistan is to completely change the culture by creating a strong middle class. That means staying for a whole generation, maybe more. As a nation we can not afford to stay there 20+ years, so its time to get out now. Staying another year will only delay the inevitable.

As for Iraq:

[Joe]

the war on terror makes just as much sense as the war on drugs.

Its never gonna go away. What the gov't needs to do is use its intelligence more effectively.

the war on drugs has systematicly made the poor poorer, overstretched the penal and corrections system, and cost the taxpayer more money than is neccessary.......just like the "war on terror" is doing.

Psychopaths are psychopaths, and as long as there are people out there who hate others (no matter what reason), there will be "terrorists". The middle east has been the same way for thousands of years, and it is veiled under religion, when its about real estate and power.

The problem is that the US gov't went into the situation guns ablazin, but no clear plan. Then the greed took over, and it was no longer about terror, but about oil.

The government failed the public, they didn't lose the war on terror. they failed the people who trusted their elected officials, they had their tax money pissed away, and had thousands of patriots killed, from all around the world. The war never should have left afganastan and if it went to any other country it should have been pakistan, not Iraq.

You sir, make a lot of sense.

[Joe]

The problem is we are still trying to fight wars in a "nice" way. The object of war is to kill everyone who is your enemy or make the costs so high you break their will. .

THIS is what I'm talking about. We are at war and yet afraid to piss off the enemy.

[negadave]

I'd just like everybody to realize it's about money, not terror. :cya:

[Hondo]

I'd just like everybody to realize it's about money, not terror. :cya:

Not to them it isn't.

[Pete Nice]

We haven't lost anything...yet. History will decide if Iraq was worth it but personally I think it was a shrewd move to go in there. The intelligence at the time supported the conclusions and when potentially thousands (if not millions) of American lives are at stake in a WMD terror incident it's better to be wrong and go than to do nothing. The establishment of a permanent military presence in the Persian Gulf also benefits us as like it or not we are still a petroleum-driven economy. Until that changes we would be absolutely stupid not to maintain a sizable military force to protect our access to that supply. It also keeps the Russians and the Chinese from moving in there. Whoever controls the oil wins. It's that simple.

I don't believe it started over oil but I have ZERO problem with using our military to protect our access to a natural resource we cannot survive without. The problem is we are still trying to fight wars in a "nice" way. The object of war is to kill everyone who is is your enemy or make the costs so high you break their will. We understood that in WW II but today I don't think we do. Nothing is free, cheap or easy. Especially freedom. While the 5600+ deaths in combat since 2001 are all tragic they really pale in comparison to the 13,000+ deaths PER YEAR from drunk driving don't they? We are truly our own worst enemy. It's a damn good thing WWII wasn't fought using today's rules and today's standards. We'd all be goose-stepping and listening to the Horst Wessel song daily.

This.

Every war since WWII has been fucked up b/c of politicians and "nice" war. This one is no different and Vietnam was the worst.

[Pete Nice]

I'd just like everybody to realize it's about money, not terror. :cya:

Not to them it isn't.

:high5:

And it didn't start about money either, there is a big hole on the south end of Manhattan that will attest to that.

[Joe]

I'd just like everybody to realize it's about money, not terror. :cya:

Not to them it isn't.

:high5:

And it didn't start about money either, there is a big hole on the south end of Manhattan that will attest to that.

You're not talking about Iraq right?